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7:01 pm
21/08/07
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BuckyB
Moderator
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AtariBuff gave me a perfect explanation for German censorship in games (see AtariBuff’s posting below) but I’m still a bit puzzled. I don’t want to hijack that thread, so I’m gonna ask here:
How about the Austrian ‘lesser censored’ games that the Buff talked about? I don’t see any of them in the release-lists. Can anyone give me a title that was released as:
1. Uncensored release
2. Censored German release
3. ‘Slightly censored’ Austrian release
I know games that have 1 and 2 (Lone Soldier is one example) but I don’t know any games that also have 3.
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7:14 pm
21/08/07
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AtariBuff
Moderator
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here is my post again:
Bucky,
???Indizierung??? (censorship) means that you only get the games when you are age 18 and over (???German Jugendschutz??? with watchdog USK). It was also the case that a game was completely taken from the shelfs and dealers were NOT allowed to sell them at all (???Verbreitungsverbot???).
Reasons for ???Indizierung??? and ???Verbreitungsverbot??? are
a) no swastikas, ss-runes, portraits of Hitler because of Germany???s troubled past with the Nazi regime (???Wiederbetaetigungsverbot???)
b) blood in games and shooting at (pixellated)???people???
Thus many games were released in the German market with robots instead of people to shoot at, removed swastikas (german ???Medal of Honor??? series).
This is the case why many germans order/buy directly games from Austria or Switzerland because of a softer youth protection code. So blood in games and shooting at pixellated people is allowed in Austria, but as we delivered the Fuehrer to the Germans and were a willing partner in his activities there are also no swastikas, ss-runes, pictures of Hitler allowed in Austria, as we also have a ???Wiederbetaetigungsverbot???.
So, to be correct, every censored (indiziertes) GERMAN PAL game has an AUSTRIAN counterpart which is NOT that heavyly censored!
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7:15 pm
21/08/07
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AtariBuff
Moderator
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BuckyB said:
Can anyone give me a title that was released as:
1. Uncensored release
2. Censored German release
3. ???Slightly censored??? Austrian release
I know games that have 1 and 2 (Lone Soldier is one example) but I don???t know any games that also have 3.
I will look into that dilemma when many other things are done with the database.
An example: “Resident Evil 2″
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7:27 pm
21/08/07
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BuckyB
Moderator
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So tell me about resi2 then 
What is censored? Box only, or also in-game? That last one should also mean a new SLES code, but that doesn’t always seem to be the case… (examples are Platinum V-Rally 2, Platinum TOCA touring car)
I don’t want to turn this into a political discussion, but I was amazed to find out that German games were still censored!
Back in the days, I used to read a German C64 magazine (64′er Magazine) so I was aware of the blacklisted games, but, come on, that was in the 80’s!
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7:30 pm
21/08/07
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AtariBuff
Moderator
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this makes the digital archeology thing funny: german/austrian releases: same SLES/SCES, same SpineNumber. Differences ALL IN-GAME!!!
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7:41 pm
21/08/07
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Defcon
Admin
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Did you know that it is only red blood in games that causes the German Censors to go crazy.
The common practice in the industry is to turn the red blood green and as if by magic the censors don’t care.
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7:55 pm
21/08/07
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BuckyB
Moderator
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Yes, I’ve seen that work-around. People have red blood. So, if the blood is green, it means the thing you just brutally murdered cannot be human, so it’s OK
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8:11 pm
21/08/07
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AtariBuff
Moderator
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Strange Trivia:
Activision’s “River Raid” for the Atari 2600 got the un-banned status just recently. Was banned for over 20 years!!! Think of it - Carol Shaw’s “River Raid”!!!!!!
Red blood, yes - thats why people sprites are constantly changed to robot or alien sprites for a proper german release.
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Hmmm, I wonder if Wolfenstein 3D ever got released 
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as you probably have guessed it was censored immediately despite the fact that YOU had to shoot Nazis. But the framed picture of Hitler and the Hakenkreuz was enough for censorship and wasn’t allowed to be sold and possessed.
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1:26 pm
8/09/07
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MetalSnake
Hardcore
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AtariBuff said:
An example: ???Resident Evil 2???
Resident Evil 2 isn’t censored in Germany as far as I know. But it is “indiziert” (indexed as in on a list with games which are forbidden to advertise, show to people under 18 etc.) Some games are rated for 18 and above without being “indiziert” so you can do advertise it but you aren’t allowed to sell it to people under 18.
Resident Evil 3 would be a good example, we (Germany) got a stupid version without blood but with grey smoke instead and zombie corpses start to blink and then disappear, now that game is rated 16 (and above). I don’t know about Austria and Switzerland versions of it though. You might have got the UK version which is by far less censored or the US version which is even lesser censored, but still censored. The only uncensored version of the game is the japanese one.
For some weird reason swastikas and stuff like that are forbidden in games but in movies you see those very often and those can be rated 6 and above, for example Werner 2 - Das muss kesseln!
about Wolfenstein 3D, that game isn’t censored but it is forbidden!
There was a censored SNES version, but I’m not sure if it was a US version or if it actually was released in Germany as a censored version.
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3:34 pm
8/09/07
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BuckyB
Moderator
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AtariBuff said:
But the framed picture of Hitler and the Hakenkreuz was enough for censorship and wasn???t allowed to be sold and possessed.
Wait, ‘possessed’? You aren’t allowed to own that kinda stuff?
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nope, it falls under the law of “Wiederbetaetigung”. No citicen of Germany and Austria is allowed to possess Nazi memorabilia and stuff. The only exclusion for owning this stuff is for historical purposes like in a history book or TVs/movies like Discovery History Channel or movies which deal with negative aspects of the Nazi regime.
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6:12 pm
8/09/07
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BuckyB
Moderator
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I’m trying to stay away from any political statements or personal opinions here, but what if someone wants to collect WW2 stuff (like we do with videogames)?
No can do?
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no can do. or hidden and hope to not get caught.
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5:17 pm
9/09/07
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MetalSnake
Hardcore
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AtariBuff said:
The only exclusion for owning this stuff is for historical purposes like in a history book or TVs/movies like Discovery History Channel or movies which deal with negative aspects of the Nazi regime.
What do you mean by “owning this stuff (…) in a history book or TVs/movies”?
As I said there are movies like Werner 2 which have Hakenkreuze shown and no one has a problem with it.
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it’s allowed to show it for historical purposes so when you see a hakenkreuz our the ss-runes in a history book it’s perfectly legal. it’s forbidden to own uniforms, the book “mein kampf”, and other memorabilia and war stuff.
showing this stuff in movies is accepted because it falls under historical relevance. werner has no relevance at all, though 
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8:13 pm
9/09/07
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MetalSnake
Hardcore
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So, why is it allowed in movies like Werner and many other which have no relevance at all but not in games?
I think it’s because movies are art so it’s going over Kunstfreiheit (art freedom) and games aren’t art???
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yes, that might be the best explanation.
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4:40 pm
18/09/07
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AtariBuff
Moderator
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slightly off-topic as it’s a XBOX 360 release but take a closer look at the PRICE TAG of this “Rated 18+ game” - A/CH for Austria/Switzerland. Ther German release is censored and therefore an EXTRA release!
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